Crime: Why and What to Do?
Every year the world spends more
money on crime prevention and control. Yet despite these efforts crime rates
are soaring, and notably in American public schools, crime has reached almost
uncontrollable levels. In this July 1975 discussion with Lieutenant David
Mozee, media relations officer for the Chicago Police Department, Srila Prabhupada
proposed an amazingly simple yet practical solution to the seemingly
insurmountable problem of crime.
Lieutenant Mozee: I understand you
have some ideas that could help us in our efforts to prevent crime. I'd be very
interested to hear them.
Srila Prabhupada: The difference
between a pious man and a criminal is that one is pure in heart and the other
is dirty. This dirt is like a disease in the form of uncontrollable lust and
greed in the heart of the criminal. Today people in general are in this
diseased condition, and thus crime is very widespread. When the people become
purified of these dirty things, crime will disappear. The simplest process of
purification is to assemble in congregation and chant the holy names of God.
This is called sankirtana and is the basis of our Krsna consciousness movement.
So, if you want to stop crime, then you must gather as many people as possible
for mass sankirtana. This congregational chanting of the holy name of God will
dissipate all the dirty things in everyone's heart. Then there will be no more
crime.
Lieutenant Mozee: Do you have any
feelings about crime here in the United States as opposed to the crime in your
own country of India?
Srila Prabhupada: What is your
definition of crime?
Lieutenant Mozee: Any trampling on
the rights of one person by another person.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Our
definition is the same. In the Upanisads it is said, isavasyam idam sarvam: [Iso
mantra 1] " Everything belongs to God." So, everyone has the right to
utilize whatever is allotted to him by God, but one may not encroach upon
others' property. if one does so, he becomes a criminal. Actually the first
crime is that you Americans are thinking this land of America is yours.
Although two hundred years ago it was not yours, you have come from other parts
of the world and claimed it as your land. Actually it is God's land, and
therefore it belongs to everyone, since everyone is a child of God. But the vast
majority of people have no conception of God. Practically speaking, everyone is
godless. Therefore they should be educated to love God. In America, your
government has a slogan: "in God we trust." Is that correct?
Lieutenant Mozee: Yes.
Srila Prabhupada: But where is the
education about God? To trust is very good, but simple trust will not endure
unless it is backed up with scientific knowledge of God. One may know that he
has a father, but unless he knows who his father is, his knowledge is
imperfect. And that education in the science of God is lacking.
Lieutenant Mozee: Do you feel that
it's lacking only here in the United States?
Srila Prabhupada: No. Everywhere.
The age we live in is called Kali-yuga, the age of forgetting God. It is an age
of misunderstanding and quarrel, and the people's hearts are filled with dirty
things. But God is so powerful that if we chant His holy name we become
purified, just as my disciples have become purified of their bad habits. Our
movement is based on this principle of chanting the holy name of God. We give
everyone the opportunity, without any distinction. They can come to our temple,
chant the Hare Krsna mantra, take a little prasadam as refreshment, and
gradually become purified. So if the governmental authorities give us some
facilities, then we can hold mass sankirtana. Then, without a doubt, the whole
society will change.
Lieutenant Mozee: If I understand
you correctly, sir, you are saying that we should emphasize a return to
religious principles.
Srila Prabhupada: Certainly.
Without religious principles what is the difference between a dog and a man?
Man can understand religion, but a dog cannot. That is the difference. So if
human society remains on the level of dogs and cats, how can you expect a
peaceful society? If you bring a dozen dogs and put them together in a room,
will it be possible to keep them peaceful? Similarly, if human society is
filled with men whose mentality is on the level of dogs, how can you expect
peace?
Lieutenant Mozee: If some of my
questions sound disrespectful, it is only because I do not completely
understand your religious beliefs. I mean no disrespect whatsoever.
Srila Prabhupada: No, it is not a
question of my religious beliefs. I am simply pointing out the distinction
between human life and animal life. Animals cannot possibly learn anything
about God, but human beings can. However, if human beings are not given the
facility to learn about God, then they remain on the level of cats and dogs.
You cannot have peace in a society of cats and dogs. Therefore, it is the duty
of the governmental authorities to see that people are taught how to become God
conscious. Otherwise, there will be trouble, because without God consciousness
there is no difference between a dog and a man: the dog eats, we eat; the dog
sleeps, we sleep; a dog has sex, we have sex; a dog tries to defend itself, and
we also try to defend ourselves. These are the common factors. The only
difference is that a dog cannot be instructed about his relationship with God,
but a man can.
Lieutenant Mozee: Wouldn't peace be
a precursor to a return to religion? Must we not first have peace?
Srila Prabhupada: No, no, that is
the difficulty. At the present moment, no one actually knows the meaning of
religion. Religion means to abide by the laws of God, just as good citizenship
means to abide by the laws of the government. Because no one has any
understanding of God, no one knows the laws of God or the meaning of religion.
This is the present status of people in today's society. They are forgetting
religion, taking it to be a kind of faith. Faith may be blind faith. Faith is
not the real description of religion. Religion means the laws given by God, and
anyone who follows those laws is religious, whether a Christian, a Hindu, or a
Muslim.
Lieutenant Mozee: With all due
respect, isn't it true that in India, where religious customs have been
followed for centuries upon centuries, we are seeing not a return to but a
drawing away from spiritual life?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but it is
due only to bad leadership. Otherwise, the vast majority of the Indian people
are fully conscious of God, and they try to follow the laws of God. Here in the
West, even big college professors do not believe in God or in life after death.
But in India, even the poorest man believes in God and in a next life. He knows
that if he commits sins he will suffer and if he acts piously he will enjoy. To
this day, if there is a disagreement between two villagers, they will go to the
temple to settle it, because everyone knows that the opposite parties will
hesitate to speak lies before the Deities. So in most respects, India is still
eighty-percent religious. That is the special privilege of taking birth in
India, and the special responsibility also. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said,
bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma
yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara
(Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi 9.41)
Anyone who has taken birth in India
should make his life perfect by becoming Krsna conscious. Then he should
distribute Krsna consciousness all over the world.
Lieutenant Mozee: Sir, there is a
Christian parable that says it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a
needle than for a rich man to come before the throne of God. Do you think the
wealth of the United States and other Western countries is a block to spiritual
faith?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Too much
wealth is a block. Krsna states in the Bhagavad-gita (2.44):
bhogaisvarya-prasaktanam
tayapahrta-cetasam
vyavasayatmika buddhi
samadhau na vidhiyate
If one is materially very opulent,
he forgets God. Therefore too much material wealth is a disqualification for
understanding God. Although there is no absolute law that only the poor man can
understand God, generally if one is extraordinarily rich, his only ambition is
to acquire money, and it is difficulht for him to understand spiritual
teachings.
Lieutenant Mozee: In America, those
who belong to the Christian faith also believe these things. I don't see any
vast differences between the spiritual beliefs of one religious group and
another.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, the essence
of all religion is the same. Our proposal is that whatever religious system one
follows, he should try to understand God and love Him. If you are a Christian,
we do not say, "That is no good; you must become like us." Our
proposition is that whether you are a Christian, Muslim, or Hindu, simply try
to understand God and love Him.
Lieutenant Mozee: If I could return
to my original purpose for coming, might I ask what advice you could give to
assist us in reducing crime? I recognize that the first and foremost way would
be a return to God, as you say—there's no doubt about that-but is there
something that we could immediately do to diminish this spreading criminal
mentality?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As I've
already outlined in the beginning of our talk, you should give us the facility
to chant the holy name of God and distribute prasada. Then there will be a
tremendous change in the population. I came alone from India, and now I have
many followers. What did I do? I asked them to sit down and chant the Hare Krsna
mantra, and afterward I distributed a little prasadam. If this is done on a
mass scale, the entire society will become very pleasing. This is a fact.
Lieutenant Mozee: Would you want to
start the program in an area of affluence or an area of poverty?
Srila Prabhupada: We do not draw
such distinctions. Any place easily available to all kinds of men would be very
suitable to hold sankirtana. There is no restriction that only the poor men
need the benefit but the rich do not. Everyone needs to be purified. Do you
think criminality exists only in the poorer section of society?
Lieutenant Mozee: No. But I meant
to ask whether there would be more of a beneficial influence—more of a
strengthening of the community—if the program were held in a poorer area rather
than an affluent area.
Srila Prabhupada: Our treatment is
for the spiritually diseased person. When a person is afflicted with a disease,
there are no distinctions between a poor man and a rich man. They are both
admitted to the same hospital. Just as the hospital should be in a place where
both the poor man and the rich man can easily come, the location of the sankirtana
facility should be easily accessible to all. Since everyone is materially
infected, everyone should be able to take advantage.
The difficulty is that the rich man
thinks he's perfectly healthy, although he's the most diseased of all. But as a
policeman, you well know that there's criminality among rich men and poor men
alike. So our chanting process is for everyone, because it cleanses the heart,
regardless of the man's opulence or poverty. The only way to permanently change
the criminal habit is to change the heart of the criminal. As you well know,
many thieves are arrested numerous times and put into jail. Although they know
that if they commit theft they will go to jail, still they are forced to steal,
because of their unclean hearts. Therefore without cleansing the heart of the
criminal, you cannot stop crime simply by more stringent law enforcement. The
thief and the murderer already know the law, yet they still commit violent
crimes, due to their unclean hearts. So our process is to cleanse the heart.
Then all the troubles of this material world will be solved.
Lieutenant Mozee: That's a very
difficult task, sir.
Srila Prabhupada: It is not
difficult. Simply invite everyone: "Come, chant Hare Krsna, dance, and
take sumptuous prasadam." What is the difficulty? We are doing this at our
centers, and people are coming. But because we have very little money, we can
hold sankirtana only on a small scale. We invite everyone, and gradually people
are coming to our centers and becoming devotees. If the government would give
us a large facility, however, we could expand unlimitedly. And the problem is
big; otherwise why are there national news articles asking what to do? No civil
state wants this criminality. That's a fact. But the leaders do not know how to
stop it. If they listen to us, however, we can give them the answer. Why crime?
Because people are godless. And what to do? Chant Hare Krsna and take prasadam.
If you like, you can adopt this process of sankirtana. Otherwise, we will
continue conducting it on a small scale. We are just like a poor medical man
with a small private practice who could open a big hospital if he were given
the facility. The government is the executor. If they take our advice and adopt
the process of sankirtana, then the problem of crime will be solved.
Lieutenant Mozee: There are many
Christian organizations in the United States that give the holy communion. Why
doesn't this work? Why is this not cleansing the heart?
Srila Prabhupada: To speak frankly,
I find it difficult to find even one real Christian. The so-called Christians
do not abide by the Bible's order. One of the ten commandments in the Bible is,
"Thou shalt not kill." But where is that Christian who does not kill
by eating the flesh of the cow? The process of chanting the Lord's holy name
and distributing prasadam will be effective if carried out by persons who are
actually practicing religion. My disciples are trained to strictly follow
religious principles, and therefore their chanting of the holy name of God is
different from others'. Theirs is not simply a rubber-stamped position. They
have realized the purifying power of the holy name through practice.
Lieutenant Mozee: Sir, isn't the
difficulty that although a small circle of priests and devotees may follow the
religious principles, those on the fringe deviate and cause trouble? For
example, assume that the Hare Krsna movement grows to gigantic proportions, as
Christianity has. Wouldn't you then have a problem with people on the fringe of
the movement who professed to be followers but were actually not?
Srila Prabhupada: That possibility
is always there, but all I am saying is that if you are not a true Christian,
then your preaching will not be effective. And because we are strictly
following religious principles, our preaching will be effective in spreading
God consciousness and alleviating the problem of crime.
Lieutenant Mozee: Sir, let me thank
you for your time. I will deliver this tape recording to my superiors.
Hopefully, it will be effective, as you are effective.
Srila Prabhupada: Thank you very
much.
Taken from Science of Self Realization Book Chapter 6
Taken from Science of Self Realization Book Chapter 6
